https://twitter.com/capitalgrug/status/1755275416594473038 I think that if you think this way, you need to have a clear story of what even is the goal of [whichever chain you support]. How does having apps on your servers instead of facebook's servers make the world better?
I agree. There’s a threshold and for most people more decentralized than twitter, Facebook, etc is a value add. However, most people don’t know they have agency… I’ve witnessed this first hand in college so they take what is given to them. Therefore, the ability to take your casts/followers with you is huge
There are no users without devs, so if the devs care about decentralization, it matters. They also go on to imply that “users” are just price speculators. Very narrow minded view of web3, IMO.
Many Ethereum thought leaders do not care about decentralization. That's why users don't either Easy to get caught up trying to pump your centralized bags instead
u wont respond to this but do you actually truly believe you've done a good enough job decentralizing Ethereum?
I saw a worm today. I thought it was pretty cool, honestly.
It’s easy to get jaded when choosing sides even when it deludes you from looking at the forest from the trees
Need provable decentralisation, censorship resistance and rapid tps so we can run the digital democracy party in every country simultaneously. Every citizen voting on every piece of legislation (or delegating to someone who can), anonymously. Hooboy only one chain/ecosystem I can think of...
On the one hand, developers have a very-high level vision of how their chain *could* benefit users. On the other hand, users can’t see the chain’s benefits because they haven’t materialized yet. So developers care aggressively against each other and users don’t understand why they should care at all.
practically a lot of things are on the servers of Germany and amazon how to be with decentralization.Btc is the most decentralized.Ah yes, and if these servers shut down or something else happens many projects will simply stop their work.
Eh I’m torn because for instance no one outside of crypto cares about the underlying tech stack. But they do enjoy the value it unlocks, which for example loyalty reward cards ability to instantly redeem points. Games, a way to own the assets transfer and sell etc.
Vitalik what have been your biggest surprises in having created Ethereum, both positive and negative?
Well sadly everyone doesn’t share the same primitive to make the world better.
The users will follow the dev narrative sooner or later. Plus, the user will care more about the concept and application of decentralization as our human journey continues. Just wait.
A very clear way to state it. That line of thinking means Solana evangelists might as well be arguing with Facebook investors about why their servers are better to store user data on.
Vitalik He was simply stating that the devs are more concerned about meeting decentralization requirements than those who preach it without knowing the technicalities involved
Best chain is where the best culture is. I am leaning towards Base. But also love the ethos of Optimism. Reminds me of early ethereum days with culture built around public goods rather than numbah go up.
Maybe it’s not about making the world better and it’s just about doing whatever is in your personal best interest Building on Facebook has risks, plus they take a huge profit share, can kill your app etc Building on public blockchains removes platform risk
Is it decentralized enough to stop the warlock nerfs? Or does it have to be decentralized enough to debate 🤔
You’re genius @vitalik.eth ❤️ Thank you for greatly advancing finance!
They won’t care until it’s too late. When it hurts is when they pay attention.
I wouldn’t say I support any chain in particular, although most of my time searching, building & speculating has been spent on ETH. My main point is that Solana’s arguments for decentralization are not as robust as arguments that could be made for UX improvements
We need more ppl whose actions are lead by the concept of “how does this make the world better?”
I'll just have to argue with my keypads ....
newer market participants here for the gambling don't really understand what motivated the OGs to begin with because that wasn't what brought them to the space. it's not like they were reading about DAOs as a concept in 2012. they came for the money. they won't ever join a DAO.
91% of of Sol validators receive subsidies from Solana Foundation. Without that Solana would have as many validators as your average cosmos chain
Somebody wants to own us and their servants want us to believe those clowns 😅ASAP you decide to invest something, becareful with its fundraisers and governance 🚨 Decentralization is the main idea of the blockchains, DO NOT FORGET ABOUT İT GUYS ✌🏼
Utilizing crypto as an economy depends on full decentralization. Buying and selling without fiat is the end goal, nothing else matters.
He also totally misses that the non-retail users actually care a lot for decentralization. Governments and big institutions won't use a technology which is still in beta stage and where some central force ,which they don't control, can just turn it off.
That’s why I’m Optimistic because even though Optimism it’s own chain that’s helping scale ethereum they’re for the whole world ecosystem. Retro PGF & the OP Stack will only get bigger & better overtime as a result ✨🔴
I don't care about insurance, but when something goes wrong and I do have it, I love it. 99% of people hopefully won't even notice their web activity is blockchain based in the future, until they really need decentralization when something goes wrong and then they will be very happy that people fought for it.
The silver lining here is that decentralization is not a binary concept, rather than a spectrum.. which makes fertile ground for these kind of "fights". People have been comparing e-peens over the internet for decades over literally anything & everything, no point in trying to spot this imo😅
One heuristic would be to ask yourself on what chains would the prediction market Augur be likely to survive (assuming you think Augur is good for the world)?
It's principles v pragmatism. A lot of crypto natives make the mistake in thinking that their chain will be used by people who have the same values as they do. But more often than not, what people really want is something with good ux.
what's even the point of a Blockchain if it's centralized? if you need centralized global storage, there's many other solutions for that without the crypto stuff Blockchain network is specifically aimed for decentralization, that's literally the whole point
The truth is many are not here for a better world, they see the space as an opportunity to better their lives through financial gain. Which is fair, the centralised space is corrupt and reduces opportunity for the ever day man, Defi gives this opportunity but it’s quickly reducing with institutional investment.
Vitalik, really like what you are doing. ETH holder here. How about ethereum nodes runs majority on big tech servers? there is some truth that mainstream people who holds crypto don’t know about decentralization. https://cointelegraph.com/news/3-cloud-providers-accounting-for-over-two-thirds-of-ethereum-nodes-data
I think it’s something like ‘system semi-permissioned by ppl like us (Val cartel instead of tradfi of fb servers)’ rather than unpermissionable system Which certainly is useful! But may not be as useful for multiple generations (ie when sol validators become the ‘establishment’)
