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1/21/2024

Let’s spice things up a bit. Predestination: yes/no?

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
Cassie Heart@cassie
1/21/2024

I liken the questions of free will and predestination to be similar to the divide between classical physics and quantum physics. Newton viewed the universe as being the display of divine clockwork. Our improved understanding is that probabilities rule everything at a much subtler level, the clockwork is emergent.

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
Branksy Pop @branksypop
1/21/2024

both, until you fuck around and find out

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
1/21/2024

No. We choose to deny or accept the inheritance that is provided. God doesn't force us into love and adoption.

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
Jacob@jrf
1/21/2024

Omniscience without predestination doesn't make much sense, but then divine morality without free will doesn't either : ) Theories of predestination that incorporate free will seem to accept predestination as an *a priori* assumption, and then mix in the limitations of human cognition as *free will lite*

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
links@links
1/21/2024

I like the One Piece (Taoist?) view: some macro events are inevitable, but specific situations leading up to them are not. So it’s inevitable that the world financial system will be overturned but it’s a dice roll whether or not this iteration of crypto will do it.

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
Paul Berens@pmb
1/21/2024

No. Because God would necessarily be the author of evil—as opposed to passively permitting it—since He determines every action (including evil ones).

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
Chukwuka Osakwe@chukwukaosakwe
1/21/2024

Too broad. Do you mean "has God decided to save some people and not others?"

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
1/21/2024

i’m not going to debate theology, but what’s the precise definition of free will if the options in physics are determinism vs randomness?

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
Elliott Alexander@escottalexander
1/21/2024

Yes AND no. Depends on your perspective. If you are viewing things from God's perspective then everything is predestined. If you are viewing it from a human perspective then everyone has free will.

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
1/21/2024

Yes Called = saved Hot take: God’s goodness is so good that in the end everything will make sense

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
Ike@iw
1/22/2024

Coincidentally came across this blog post today from a very respected source: https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2024/01/free-will-good-riddance/ Really liked this section:

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
sgt_slaughtermelon@sgt-sl8termelon
1/23/2024

There’s a logical case to be made for predestination, but lots of good reasons to not believe in it. Within Christianity there’s a strong anti-predestination crowd and and predestination crowd, right? This is a debate that takes paragraphs to unravel.

Christianity
In reply to @benersing
1/27/2024

Yes and No. I've been taught that, in the original Judiac tradition, it wasn't a dichotomy as much as two seemingly-but-not-actually exclusively truths contained paradoxically in the vast nature of G_d. It was subsequent influence of Greek philosophy that introduced the binary.

Christianity